Michael Lutin

[Barbara Ybarra]

Hello to all:

Does anyone have this rather famous astrologer's birth data?

Barbara Ybarra

[Don Borkowski]

Michael Lutin is very secretive about his data, but www.birthdatabase.com gives September 1, 1940.  I once saw the same date in 1939 somewhere.  He claims to be a Scorpio, but.....

So that's the best I can do.

Don Borkowski

[waterbird]

Barbara,

ML looks very much like a Scorpio rising with those eye brows! I understand he asked Lydna Hiil the Sabian Symbol for 1 Scorpio and Lynda told him it was to do with Aliens landing on Earth. Michael was blown away by this symbol as he had been thinking about Aliens gathering a venue like a park.I think Lynda is a second house Scorpio Sun! These two seem to get along well.

I believe he 'offers' 4 differing birth data! How like him - very black humor! I have one of his books.

water bird

[Barbara Ybarra]

HI.
Thanks, Don.  I couldn't even find a birth date. 

Interesting info, waterbird.  I'm not sure I see the black humor in giving different birth times, but I suppose just because someone is an astrologer does not mean they want to divulge their own data.  Not very nice, though, considering most astrologers want everyone elses.

Barbara Ybarra

[james m]

hi barbara,

why do you want his birth data?

i get asked this often and am curious to know your thoughts on this... 

also, would you care to share your birth data?

thanks - james

[Don Borkowski]

Canadian astrologer Chris McRae never used to reveal her birth data because there was so much overt age discrimination in her non-astrological straight job.  She was at one time one of the very best make-up artists in the Canadian television industry.  I believe she has retired from that arena now, and she divulges her birth data freely nowadays.  For what it's worth, she has both Venus and Uranus at the Aries point!!

Don Borkowski 

[Isaac Starkman]

In the website:
http://astroknavery.wordpress.com/2006/06/27/some-serious-astrology/
Someone post his birth data:
"sept. 1, 1940
11:16 am edt
hartford, ct
this data is common knowledge in nyc and is passed around pretty freely".
If this is correct data, he has Scorpio rising with helio Jupiter exactly on Desc. All the planets are above horizon, quarto conjunction in 10th house in Virgo: Moon, Mercury, Mars, Sun. No doubt that Mercury conjunct Mars in exact trine to Desc and helio Jupiter bestows him his well known witty speaking and sense of humor.

[Barbara Ybarra]

Hi.

So waterbird was right…Scorpio rising!  Thanks, Mr. Isaac Starkman.

James:  What prompted me to want his birth data is to see if I can spot his need and talent for his humor and his career as an astrologer.  As an astrologer, I love studying the horoscopes of people that fascinate me who are in the public eye; not only because they are famous but because their presences are viewable to us all.  They are valuable learning resources.

I've given my birth data here before.  I think it is only fair if someone asks.  10/23/1950 8:40am PDT Bakersfield, Ca…29 Scorpio rising.  My only shyness is the Bakersfield part.  People are so mean about Bakersfield - that little pocket of Texas in California.  I didn't grow up there, but I did go back for some hot summers.

Barbara Ybarra     

[james m]

thanks barbara and isaac for the data here...

barbara, i opted to e mail michael lutin after you asked the question yesterday, to see if he was willing to give out his birth data... here are 2 of the 3 e mail exchanges we had..

"hi michael, i enjoy what you do and i am curious to know what your chart looks like... let me know if you feel like sharing.. it is not gotten over the net very easily and i was unable to find it..
james"

"I prefer not so I'm grateful if you honor that " ml

that's fine michael... i am curious to know why you are unwilling to share it though.. can you pinpoint a reason?
thanks
james

"It is more valuable for my clients if they have no preconceived notions about my work OT observations.
Besides it is a private thing to be shared by trusted associates." ml

in his last exchange with me where i share isaac's data, he suggests there are another 4 charts floating around too and this one isn't very accurate....

my hunch is that this is an accurate chart that isaac has shared.... pluto square scorpio ascendant - i can relate to that, lol.... saturn square midheaven from the 7th - there's the humour mixed with great sensitivity and of course his book on saturn signs is a really good book that many folks would benefit from reading....

barbara - we have rising signs and degree very close to one another... thanks for sharing your birth data...

[rj_smith]

Hello James:

I can fully understand Micheal Lutin's need to keep his birth data off the record and his need for privacy.

I have been debating, myself, about the idea of whether to publicly release my own birth chart.

Lutin has probably been 'burned' or befriended (as I have?) previously by astrologers he has either met in the field  (or on the internet ?) who ask him for his birth data, then something happens to the relationship and before you know it, people are either gossiping behind his back and/or using the natal chart as a 'weapon' to literally attack his personality or put him in his place ?

So the problem is NOT necessarily Mr. Lutin, but the overall duplicious, unreliable, nature of astrologers, in general.



R.J.

[james m]

rj,
if astrologers are unable or unwilling to help further the study of astrology by offering their own data to help the process along, then i think they will also understand why others don't really value the need for sharing specific data with the astro community as well... that is a part of what i see going on, but more significant -

it's a trust issue.........

unless a person is really clear on where they are coming from within themselves over the possible use or abuse of this knowledge, then i suspect there will be many astrologers who are unable to share freely...

rj - one could extend the description you offer on astrologers "overall duplicious, unreliable, nature of astrologers, in general" to the planet for that matter... sooner or later folks have to open up and drop their insecurities... at present we see the military build up on the planet as a direct consequence of this lack of trust among our fellow man...personally i don't think the solution is more walls( or worse) built on an obvious lack of trust..

[rj_smith]

Well James,

Withholding one's birth data has many benefits, in fact, and it's not only about lack of 'trust.'

Internet fraud is a growing concern.

When you give out your birth data and home address to the unwitting public, the risk is that it may get into the hands of an identity thief. Someone may come and burglarize my identity or home.  Identity theft, once you are deceived or hacked, is annoying and expensive to eradicate. It affects your credit bureau, ability to borrow money, safety of your family, and many other things...

I have to call in the cops, as well..

Meanwhile, if you are such a trusting guy, why do you call yourself "James M." on this site and previous to that, 'sandstone8' on the astrodatabank site....

Why not disclose your 'real' first and last name... if you feel that the world is so loving and trusting..

just curious...



R.J.

[james m]

 rj - giving out owns home address is a bit different then giving out a birth date, but alas i can tell from your tone here that conversing isn't really what you want to do... happy trails rj - james

[waterbird]

All,

One of my friends and a very good Astrologer asked me not to give out her BD to anyone please! Another in the group had asked her for her data and she chose to keep it private. A few days later the 'other' who had made the first request asked me for her data but I will never give it out! She trusted me not to! Simple! If you want to have a friend you have to be a friend.

water bird

[Barbara Ybarra]

Right.  A birthdate can enable hackers.  I have a driver's liscense somewhere out in the criminal world….so if they get my SS # too…they're all set.  But it's sort of small time.  Hackers are getting smarter.  I don't worry overmuch.

The immediate fear is the emotional hurt when someone takes your horoscope and smears it to shreds because they don't like you or they think you have stepped on their toes.  If that happens, a person only needs to consider the source…. that person's insecurity (and usually that person hides their own chart or they know you wouldn't stoop to that level). There are no good or bad horoscopes..there is only personal development.  Smearing someone else's horsoscope is breaking the number one ethics rule of astrologers (similar to the doctor's rule "I shall cause no harm").

Also, it would be annoying for a famous astrologer to be asked specific questions about their own horoscope.  They would continually be needing to say they don't wish to discuss their own horoscope.  Noel has published his horoscope and people don't seem to bother him….but then Noel has worked hard at his very strong policy of keeping things respectful and impersonal.  It must be tiring to keep posts on a forum from going ga-ga all the time. 

Barbara Ybarra